Yousaf Rizvi & Nauman Bari on new record & music industry

“We make music because we like music but you have to keep in account people’s reactions.” – Nauman Bari

Yousaf Rizvi and Nauman Bari discuss their new record, the music industry and more…

Maheen Sabeeh, Karachi

After debuting on the music scene towards the end of 2006 with the beautiful ballad, ‘Dil Nahin Manta’, Yousaf Rizvi and Nauman Bari are back with ‘Aa Jao’ – their latest single off their first record. Instep Today catches up with Yousaf and Nauman and discusses the new album and more…

Instep Today: After the success of the single, ‘Dil Nahin Manta’, you guys disappeared. And now you are back with an album and a video. Will videos be consistent as they remain a memorable marketing tool for the artist?

Nauman Bari: Yes, we are planning to come out with the video of ‘Nostalgia’ because it’s a very young and fresh song. We’re also listening to people and what video they think we should release because we’re getting great feedback from people. For example, the market for ‘Nostalgia’ includes anyone who understands college life and has graduated and has entered professional life. People relate to that. Then ‘Aik Ajnabi’ is for the young teenagers cause it’s a very pop/rock song so people like that a lot too. We’re just waiting to see the reaction of the target market and then we’ll see how to go about it next. We make music because we like music but you have to keep in account people’s reactions and what they like or dislike.

Instep Today: What is your target market?

Nauman Bari: The song ‘Mein Tere Qurban’ is an old kaafi. We made a new version of it, so naturally the market we’re looking at is between the age group of 15 to 35 years…

Yousaf Rizvi: It could be 40. I wouldn’t go above 40 because it’s a young album, one that people above 40 might not enjoy as much.

Instep Today: The licensing of music has begun, slowly but surely. As new artists, where do you stand on the issue?

Yousuf Rizvi: The question to ask is: who is gaining out of this? If it’s the record label, then it’s completely wrong. As artists, we put in a lot of effort and it’s not cheap to record a song. A good recording studio like Mekaal Hasan’s takes a lot of money. We still come from a good financial background but someone who doesn’t and who needs money; imagine how much he will suffer. If the deal is to get royalties, then it is a good deal. If your song is good and people are demanding it, then naturally you will get royalties. But it should go to the artist as well.

Instep Today: Concerts are rare and corporate sponsorship is also limited…

Yousaf Rizvi: Yes, it is difficult to generate revenue as an artist in this market. Everyone wants artists to do something like you do this for me and I’ll do this for you then. There is no liquidity and no transparency. It’s up to the artist to survive on his own. And the media says that the artists shouldn’t go to India but where do we go or what do we do then? India is a big avenue but what happens is that people end up going there and they sign deals that do nothing for them in the long run.

Instep Today: Is India on your agenda?

Yousaf Rizvi: Yes, it is. I would say why not? We have the same language, same kind of people, then why not? We’re looking at it right now and we’re talking to all our friends and references, but nothing concrete as yet. We’re looking at it.

Instep Today: Are their any shows in the pipeline?

Yousaf Rizvi: We don’t see it happening but gigs are happening. We are doing gigs with televisions channels and we are also going on radio channels. We thought that since we signed with The Musik Records, we won’t be going to Aag because they are a part of the company that also owns Fire Records. But no such thing has happened. I think as long as the music is good and people are demanding your video, you get airtime. We are looking forward to live concerts and we would love that, but acoustic is what we love doing.

Nauman Bari: I mean, we would love to sing ‘Dil Nahin Manta’ with acoustic guitars if the opportunity opens up. It’s very unfortunate and I wonder what avenues of entertainment our youth has. Coke Studio, though, is a huge success. We would love to be a part of it.

Live wires in the studio

Zeeshan Parwez and Adnan Malik had a significant role to play at Coke Studio this year. Zeeshan switched from a performer from Season One to Producer, Videos this year while Adnan Malik took on the reigns of Associate Producer Videos and Producer BTS (Behind the Scenes). Before Coke Studio hits airwaves tonight, Instep talks to Adnan and Zeeshan about the technical side of Coke Studio, the shooting process, the equation they shared, the music and the madness.…
By Maheen Sabeeh

Instep: Tell us about the training of the cameramen.
Zeeshan Parwez: We (me and Adnan) trained and tested about 18 cameramen over a stretch of two weeks. Eight of them were finalized after extensive evaluation and two were fixed to be jib operators. That’s a total of 10. Some of them were seniors who’ve worked with television for a lot of years and some were young with limited experience but their dedication and command on the camera got them in.
Adnan Malik: I had been shooting the behind the scenes a few weeks before Zeeshan showed up, and was developing the aesthetics of the final show while shooting daily rehearsals. When Zeeshan joined the rehearsals we both realized very quickly that we shared a sense of how we wanted to shoot the program. Rohail (Hyatt) showed us some references of how he wanted the show to look, and that combined with our individual predeictions for close ups, capturing raw emotion and developing a visual harmony, led to a selection process for the 10 cameramen who would shoot our show.
We auditioned over 20 camera men over the course of two weeks and had each one come in and take directions as we directed them through CCU headpieces.
We came up with a rating system for each camera man which included their framing (close ups, long shots, etc.), panning, confidence with the camera, natural intuition and rhythm, and ability to take directions etc. obviously, a lot of these camera men were very experienced in their own right and brought a lot to the table as well. Our selection process was just based on whether they were in synch with our vision, and how passionate they were about this project. Because at the end of the day, for everyone involved, Coke Studio was a passion project. And that passion starts right at the top with Rohail and Umber.

Instep: What was the technical infrastructure like? How difficult was it recording live music while taking care of the visuals?
Zeeshan: Having made performance based videos in the past, I tried my level best to capture as much instrumentation as possible.
Technically, I can write a whole case study book on this matter. I’ll say that we had about 45 people dedicated only for video, of which approx twenty were on the floor, three on the studio roof, ten were in the video room and the rest in the waiting room who came in between songs. Our video equipment came from Videotech (Ahmar Raza) and it consisted of computers, television monitors, recorders of all sorts, cables running everywhere, waveform monitors and etc.
Shoot wise, we’ve tried our level best to capture a lot of instrumentation.
We were looking at a zoomed up feel rather than making the whole thing wide. You also see the amalgamation of track and hand held shots going side by side.
Every shoot required me to yell, asking if everything was rolling. When the shooting days were finally upon us, I had completely transformed into this guy who was yelling left and right. I was Amjad Khan from Sholay! I had made the whole video team’s lives miserable.
It was even funny to see a ‘cool’ model like Adnan Malik turn into a screaming Tazmanian devil. But I’m happy to see that cameramen, engineers and assistants call me to this day and they tell me they loved working with us.
And then, just when we thought it was over, post started. I spent about two months, editing all the videos. I had to unlearn my previous style of editing to learn a new way suggested by Rohail and the results came out good Mashallah.
Adnan: Zeeshan was much more in tune with the technical angle, whereas I was more focused on the aesthetics and the behind the scenes. Zeeshan worked incredibly hard on the technical side to make sure there were minimal slip ups, especially since we shot the whole thing on a tapeless format – A first for Pakistan!
Both of us divided up the cameras on the day of the shoot, and controlled them through mouth pieces. We had hand placed each camera man according to his individual strengths and had given them very specific areas to cover on the floor. Each song had a different camera configuration, and it was our job to direct the camera man to shoot in harmony with the song being played.
Of all the five months or so that I have worked on this project, those days of shoot were by far the most exhilarating.

Instep: Coke Studio was a multi-camera shoot on a massive scale. What difficulties did you face?
Zeeshan: A multi-cam shoot of this level brought with it a lot of challenges. And a lot of headaches and sleepless nights. But in order to attain this sort of standard, you have to go through this.
The first challenge was the size of the video room inside the studio. To load massive equipment for a 10 cam shoot inside a room that only fits… well… only me… was an impossible task. So the careful loading took five six nights by itself.
During work, I like to give myself headaches because that’s how I stretch boundaries, or at least I try to. Even though I had a huge team under me, I checked and supervised every little thing; every little cable was working fine. As a producer, I found it only fair not to just command cameramen and assistants, but to get behind every technical detail and to make sure we won’t be having many headaches during shoots and in post.
The other difficulty was choosing positions for the cameras. We were working around the respective positions of the musicians and the main stars. So that meant limited space, both of us came up with good strategies. At the end of the day, we were looking at camera changes after every song played.
In the post stage, Rohail had a terrible time backing up all the footage which took him days. And on the other hand, it took me even more days to align all the footage together so I could get ready for edit.
Adnan: The toughest part was trying to make sure that we captured every note of music played since the videos were shot live. We didn’t have backup takes to cover us in the edit if we missed a specific solo or bridge. And considering that we shot about 30 videos, we couldn’t memorize every part of every song, so we had to really go by intuition. I dare say, when we re-saw what we had shot live on that day, Rohail pointed out quite a few places where we missed the musical parts! Even with numerous cameras, you can never capture everything as it happens! And especially since the cameras were divided between Zeeshan and I, there were times where we were overlapping on the same artist, while completely ignoring another! These are all learnings, however, and we hope to improve on them in the future.

Instep: Both of you have worked together for the first time. What was the equation like between the two of you?
Zeeshan: This is the first time we worked together. It was great working with Adnan. I had a lot of fun being with him. Even though he was in charge of BTS (behind the scenes), he stepped in to help me in the video shoots by taking care of four cams, and he did a good job. In short, I was very comfortable working with him. We were also partners in foosball (a foosball table was present in the studio) playing against the musicians teams. Damn you musicians! I kill you!!!! I physically keel youuu!!!!
Adnan: We worked together for the first time via Coke Studio. I had heard that Zeeshan was a terror to work with, which is not true at all. And he had heard that I was just a pretty ‘mawdel’ and socialite, which is partly true.
Both Zeeshan and I share a very strong, yet distinct, aesthetic vision. We both brought a lot to the table as the eyes of Coke Studio and our combined aesthetic is apparent in the way the videos look. Zeeshan has a very edgy, raw and dynamic sensibility that comes from his experience in music videos, and mine is a confluence of years of documentary work, photography and dabbling in fashion. But our sensibilities gelled really well, and we actually had a blast working together. We both shared a passion for what we were doing and there was absolutely no ego involved. We shared responsibilities according to our strengths and it all worked out quite organically at the end. It was a pleasure working with Zeeshan, he’s very talented, focused and quite hilarious! We have even discussed collaborating on more projects together in the future. And with Rohail at the head of the totem pole, we were very much part of a holistic, supportive team.

Instep: How was the experience of working together with producers Rohail and Umber Hyatt, the artists and the house band?
Zeeshan: For me, Rohail, Umber and Gumby are family. Rohail is by far one of the most competent people I’ve ever met. I am in awe of this guy, for the person he is and how technically superior he is. His way of looking into things is an inspiration for me altogether and his skills of solving problems are amazing. With Coke Studio, he provided a platform for not only me, but countless others, where we could work our own way, the way we wanted to. He believed in us as much as we have faith in him.
Umber is the other reason why Coke Studio is so successful. Many managers and producers can’t pull off half the things she can do. She is too organized and I’ll never forget all the advice she’s given me that’s helped me work so efficiently.
This time around, I would be texting her messages, writing to her about funny conversations between me and the engineers… we had a few characters who used to crack us up.
As for the house band, this is first time I interacted with Jaffer Zaidi and Assad Ahmed and they were great. Jaffer and I shared a secret Sanskriti language made up by us. Assad and I would incorporate rock n roll terminologies to every small thing. Omran Shafique and Kamran “Mannu” Zafar are great. And Gumby is Gumby. That’s my Coke Studio experience.
Adnan: My gig with Coke Studio has been the best thing that has happened to me in Pakistan. Rohail aka ‘Pa’, is a wonderfully magnanimous, insightful, passionate and absorbingly intelligent human being, and being under his wing has been a fantastic learning experience both in the professional realm and on the personal growth front. Umber, aka ‘Ma’, is the rock behind Coke Studio and made sure that everything ran smoothly and seamlessly. Together, Rohail and Umber created a wonderful familial vibe on and around the set, and it is one of the most pleasurable playgrounds I have ever been on!
Working on this project has reaffirmed my belief that good things can come with pure intentions and dedicated hard work. In fact, I walk away from this season of Coke Studio as a richer, more evolved, and spiritually ignited human being than when I entered it because of the dynamic created by Rohail, Umber, the production team and the supremely talented musicians.
I would always anticipate the arrival of a new character or artist on to the Coke Studio set and would be amazed at how their egos would vanish in seconds after interacting with the aura of the place and its people. The energy of Coke Studio is much greater than the sum of its parts!
– Photos by Kohi Marri and Rizwan ul Haq

instep interview: Dr Akbar Yazdani

“If we don’t pursue digital licensing or TV licensing how is the label supposed to survive? The problem is for some reason the general public in this country as well as organizations think music is for free. Music is not for free; it costs a lot of money.”

In this interview with Instep, Dr Akbar Yezdani talks about the licensing of music, its importance and why more record labels are essential for the growth of the music industry…

By Maheen Sabeeh

Instep: The issue of licensing of music, how did it come about?

Dr Akbar Yezdani: The issue has been around for some time. We told all the music channels to air music content legally. All the content Fire Records owns is copyrighted. By owning, we mean songs, videos, everything. It applies to every artist with Fire Records except Ali Azmat.

Instep: Why is his case different?

DAY: Ali Azmat opted for a different deal. He didn’t give us his rights for a lump sum like other artists. He didn’t ask for upfront payment. He opted for a royalty-based deal. We distribute his albums but we don’t have copyrights to them.

Instep: What about the rest of the industry?

DAY: Other than Ali Azmat, all other artists with Fire Records have been paid upfront. We purchase their rights and in return, they are paid in lump sum. In some cases, we make the videos and pay the rest. In some cases, the artist makes the video himself. I say we own the content because by paying a lump sum, Fire becomes the outright owner.
In a song there are two main things, the music and the lyrics. Now whether the music is changed but the lyrics are the same, even then the copyright still belongs to us. And if the music remains the same but the lyrics are changed, even then the copyright belongs to us. Neither can you make remixes nor can you change the words.
Basically, it is the transfer of rights from the artist to the label, which in this case is Fire Records.

Instep: Tell us about the licensing issue…

DAY: When Fire Records started two years ago, our major mainstream release at that point was Ali Zafar. Then the number of artistes kept on increasing – Abrar, Atif, Jal, Strings and so many others. But the starting point was two years ago. The content at that time was so limited that affirmative action was not entirely possible. It didn’t make sense to ask people for licensing. But as Fire Records grew so did the investment. We have made videos and released countless records.

What we say to everyone, not just channels, but radio stations and web-zines is that a huge amount is being invested in the industry. Fiscal sales are down. But that same content is running for free everywhere. Now if that content is running and all the parties are involved, we want to share the monetizing of that content. We want to share it because we have been investing in the music industry. Look at the global structure. Music is not for free. Royalties are given to the artistes and to the label.

Instep: This deal is important but what about the music industry and a cut in royalties for them?

DAY: Ali Azmat did not sell us his rights. He will have his options of royalties but if artists sell their rights to us in return for a large sum, then the royalty will be given to the record label because we own the content.

All other artists signed up with Fire were given a good deal with upfront payments for which they gave up their rights. They sold it for a price, which was mutually agreed upon so there’s no reason to crib.
If we don’t pursue this then how will the label make money? If we don’t pursue digital licensing or TV licensing how is the label supposed to survive? The problem is for some reason the general public in this country as well as organizations think music is for free. Music is not for free; it costs a lot of money.
There is no need to see this as a battle. It isn’t one. It is an alliance with channels and they have been very reciprocal. Whether it was Ghazanfar Ali from MTV or anyone else, they understood where I was coming from and have agreed to the deal.

At the end of the day, this will benefit everyone. More content will develop because investment will not stop. Remember a few years ago when piracy crackdowns took place? Record labels disappeared from the horizon. For them to come back, licensing is necessary. One record label cannot possibly release every artist in Pakistan. We need more labels to enter the market. And for that, laws have to be taken into account.
When I say royalty, it is a negligible sum. But when it accumulates, it will make a difference.

Instep: How many channels are currently onboard with Fire Records?

DAY: The deal has been done with Aag, MTV Pakistan, Play and Oxygen. Talks are on with Oye. But it gives me pleasure to say that most of the channels are with us and I’m very happy that MTV is onboard. Ghazanfar Ali has contributed to the industry. It was only a matter of time before we all came on the same page.

Instep: What about radio channels?

DAY: The other day I was reading somewhere that 122 licenses have been issued to radio channels. Who is monitoring their content?

But to answer your question, we are talking to them and very soon we will finalize an agreement with them as well. We are not competitors. We are partners. We are content generators as long as we can afford it. We will continue creating content.

Instep: How are record labels operating in India?

DAY: Some artists separate their rights. Take Strings for instance. Pakistan rights are separate and international rights are separate. But in India, things happen differently from Pakistan. Indian record labels do not sign any artist or release their album until they have all the rights including the audio, video, radio, broadcasting, television licensing as well as a share in concert profits. They don’t do it like us.
We have no share in concerts. On average, an Indian record label has a cut of 50 percent. In a few cases, that percent may be 30-35 percent but nothing less than that.

Instep: One concern within the music industry is the airing of foreign content on local channels…
DAY: It isn’t my domain. That is the domain of Pakistan Electronic Media Regulatory Authority (PEMRA). Every channel that is given a license in this country specifically mentions how much content of which nature they can air. Now if there are violations happening, that is a cause for concern for PEMRA.
There are three regulatory bodies. One is PEMRA. The second is the Intellectual Property Organisation of Pakistan (IPO) and the third is Pakistan Telecommunication Authority (PTA). It saddens me to say that they are not playing their role. Every Internet provider that provides illegal content in Pakistan should be stopped by PTA.

Instep: Digital sales have become a norm. What is your view?

DAY: Digital sales are happening. We’ve just signed a deal with Wateen. Wateen is going to legitimately stream our content on their portal. We are getting into other digital partners with this. So you see once an interest is created, which is mostly economic, but once we have partners it won’t be just us, our partners will also fight piracy. All the channels will become partners in terms of licensing and they won’t allow other channels to show pirated stuff because then they will be paying for it themselves.

Instep: How will Fire Records tackle the issue of Internet piracy?

DAY: If you look at our catalog till June 2010, the forthcoming albums and videos, we’ve invested twice as much in content development that is all on the new artists. How are we going to monetize?
An ordinary person is downloading from the Internet without realizing that they’re hurting the industry. You might love a song by a certain artist. You might really like a song but instead of buying it legally, you download it illegally for free. The consequence is that the artist will not be able to produce another album after three years because he won’t have any money. The label won’t have money either and they wouldn’t be able to invest in the artist. Downloading illegally not only hurts the music industry but it also hinders the sound, which is compressed on the web. Why should one wait for regulators and authorities to force you to do what’s right?

Instep: Do you think Internet piracy can be contained in Pakistan?

DAY: My question is why not? In Dubai, they’ve blocked illegal sites. If you go and type some site which has illegal content, it says this is against UAE rules.
In Pakistan, PTA (Pakistan Telecommunications Authority) provides service to Internet Service Providers (ISP). PTA comes on top of PTCL (Pakistan Telecommunications Company Ltd). If PTA directs PTCL to block all illegal content, they will have to comply.
What is the job of the PTA? Under the law of PTA, it is written that they will protect copyrights. ISPs will not do so until PTA asks them to.
We told PTA to block illegal content. They forwarded us to the IPO (Intellectual Property Organisation). IPO then said to us that they won’t do it until an inter-ministerial committee doesn’t sit down. That committee has the Prime Minister as its chairman.
We were told to make a list of issues we would like to discuss. The PM would see the list and decide if he would like to put it on the table. No one knows the last time the committee had a meeting or if they talked. There is so much bureaucracy that it’s ridiculous.

Instep: Is there a plan to counter the Internet piracy issue?

DAY: There is an international regime being created on the Internet and very soon you will see a massive Internet operation crackdown and it will be so big that people are really going to be taken aback by it.
This is a plan, which is almost done, we are in the operational phase and we will go after everybody who is pirating music. I am responsible for my artists. I’m not the regulatory body for the entire industry. I can only stand for the rights of Fire Records. Fire Records will relentlessly pursue anybody and everybody who tries to pirate our artists and cause a loss to the industry. We will go after them.